Mary vs the prostitutes
I wanted to look more into the ways that Stephen views women
throughout the story. More specifically, I wanted to look at what I see as the
two opposite ends of what women can be. On the low end are the prostitutes that
he visits and on the high end is the Virgin Mary
He views the prostitutes as just a means to have sex. He
feels a deep sense of shame in having been with them and sees them in a negative
light. To Stephen, they are merely an outlet for his lust, and he views them as
little more than this. From Stephen’s association between his habit of visiting
prostitutes and his own damnation when he’s getting preached during the
retreat, it can be inferred that his negative outlook on the prostitutes at
least partially comes from his religious upbringing. He feels bad about what he
has done mainly because he thinks it’s a sin and it’s immoral, so he views these
women are sinners and immoral.
On the other end of things there’s how Stephen views the
Virgin Mary. Stephen is sort of a fanboy for the Virgin Mary. From the way he
describes her in chapter 3, it’s pretty clear he thinks of her as what a woman
should strive to be. This isn’t that surprising considering Stephen’s upbringing
in religious schools.
Something that both the prostitutes and Mary have in common
is that when Stephen has a way of describing them that’s almost mythical. They’re
not individuals so much as a representation of what’s ideal or unideal about
women.
I wonder whether this is a conscious decision on the part of
Joyce and is a criticism of the Catholic Church. It’s clear that on both ends
of the spectrum, the way in which Stephen views women is shaped by his
religious education. The prostitutes being seen as almost subhuman is because
of the Church, as is his veneration of the Virgin Mary. It’s a bit of a stretch,
but maybe through Stephen’s reduction of women in his life to being just objects
Joyce is criticizing the way that the Catholic Church does the same to women.
There are other instances of Joyce being critical of the Catholic Church in A Portrait
of the Artist as a Young Man so maybe this is just another example of this.
I agree with your theory. There are multiple times where Joyce writes about challenging the church's rules and decisions: Simon and Charles against the Church's decision about Parnell, and Stephen reporting the unfair time he got pandied.
ReplyDeleteYour theory goes full circle. What he knows about women is limited to the what the Church taught him and Mercedes, since Stephen's only been around boys his age his entire life. How Stephen views women is shaped by his segregation from them too. The few interactions he's had with women have been for sex or have become the object of his dramatic visions: it further solidifies the Church's ideas to Stephen.
interesting. I think for Stephen, the spectrum of religion vs sin is horseshoe shaped, in that the further he leans on either side the harder they become to differentiate. The prostitutes and Mary maybe are just tangible expressions of either side. I'd love to see Stephen as a balanced adult having a healthier view of religion and therefore women.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right when you say Steven's interactions with women are influenced by the church, which is basically the only place he has learned about women in any capacity. He replicates the Virgin/Whore dynamic exactly without really knowing he's doing it, and either way reduces the women he interacts with to their use to him. It's really sad to see him growing up and getting further away from the childlike idea that he could get to know girls at a personal level. I have a feeling that this is not something he'll outgrow and that his use and misuse of women will continue to be a strong theme of the novel. I hope I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteI don't think your idea is that much of a stretch. I find it weird as well that there is so much emphasis placed on the extreme ends of the spectrum. I'm sure a woman that is morally upstanding yet not a saint like Mary should be a common occurrence, yet nowhere in the story do we see nearly as much emphasis on such a character as Mary or the prostitutes. This binary one-or the-other representation is very strange, so it is possible that it is Joyce's subtle commentary on the Church's views on women.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Stephen's view of women as images as opposed to actual human beings like him is a result from his upbringing and the Catholic Church and I get the sense the Joyce does criticize the Catholic Church in his novel. Stephen also treats Emma in an image and with a mythic air similar to how he treats the prostitutes and Mary. Stephen's sense of right and wrong seems to be influenced by the church as well, in that what the church consider to be a sin, Stephen does as well. On the other hand, I can kind of understand Stephen (which doesn't excuse his actions though). In his Catholic school, he's never made any connections with girls and probably rarely talks to them. It makes sense that he's a bit of a jerk in his thoughts toward women although I hope after interacting with more women he'll change.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting observation! I agree that his blind worship of Mary and his emotionless interactions with the prostitutes are two polar opposites that present the same idea, that Stephen hasn't been capable of treating women as people. Another example is Emma, with whom he goes on the train ride home and writes the love poem about. While Mary is an idol and the prostitutes are sexual tools, Emma is a literary character, filling the role of an object appeasing Stephen rather than the role of a person.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up an interesting point about Joyce vs Stephen. Is Joyce critical of the way Stephan sorts women into this virgin/whore binary system? Is Joyce conscious that his female characters aren't even real characters? While it is clear that Joyce is harshly critiquing the Catholic church, I'm still unsure about how far his critiques reach. You'd think that, if Joyce was a raging proto-feminist, he'd have a strong female character somewhere in this novel...
ReplyDeleteThis post made me think about how the readers get only a brush of an introduction for any female "characters" in this novel, and that's about it. You mentioned the prostitutes and the Virgin Mary, and I think it's also important to analyze Emma as a character. Emma is portrayed as an image to us in the novel, just as Stephen wants to see her. No dialogue, no description of physical attributes, and no insight in what she is thinking or wanting during the tram scene. I get that this novel is about Stephen's point of view, but maybe this is just Joyce writing in the 1900s during a time that female representation was regarded as unimportant.
ReplyDeleteI agree Stephens views on women are shaped by the catholic church. I think he idolized women that he sees as good because they remind him of the virgin Mary and looks down on prostitutes. He sees someone who he could marry as Mary but the prostitutes are just for fun. While I hate how Stephen thinks of women I do not think it is just his fault.
ReplyDeleteI think you make an interesting point in connecting Stephen's views of women to his binary nature. As a child, it can kind of be pardoned that his views about women are so polarized. But what is interesting is even when Stephen matures, and for example is in University, still has this attitude, seeing Emma as either a perfect image, or a cheating villain.
ReplyDeleteSomething that complicates the idea you brought up is his first depiction of his first night with a prostitute. Then, she's not even described as a prostitute, but rather as the sort of idealized woman, like from the novels he reads, and the whole encounter uses religious and romantic language. It is only by the next chapter that he begins to describe prostitutes using more vulgar language.
ReplyDeleteI think your theory definitely has merit. Stephen's views of women are hardly even a spectrum so much as they are a binary; he sees either the virgin or the prostitute. One can also see very clearly how Stephen's views could be influenced by the church, since it teaches that Mary is the ideal and that sex in general is sinful.
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